rrdcached support for --template

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rrdcached support for --template

Eric Schoeller
Hello list,

I believe this question has been asked before, but I was not able to
find a record of a response in the archives.

Is there a plan to enable rrdcached support for 'rrdtool update
--template ...', and if so what is the approximate time frame? Apologies
in advance if the feature has already been added and I've missed it.

Thanks!

Eric Schoeller
University of Colorado, Boulder
Information Technology Services

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Re: rrdcached support for --template

oetiker
Administrator
Hi Eric

Yesterday Eric Schoeller wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> I believe this question has been asked before, but I was not able to
> find a record of a response in the archives.
>
> Is there a plan to enable rrdcached support for 'rrdtool update
> --template ...', and if so what is the approximate time frame? Apologies
> in advance if the feature has already been added and I've missed it.
>

I don't know of anyone working towards this at present ... the
problem with supporting --template is that it requires knowledge
about the structure of the rrd file which rrdcached does not have
by design ... there are ideas on how to change this (it would also
enable updatev) but the changes would be quite extensive ...

if you have time or money I'll be glad to help ...

cheers
tobi


> Thanks!
>
> Eric Schoeller
> University of Colorado, Boulder
> Information Technology Services
>
> _______________________________________________
> rrd-developers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.oetiker.ch/cgi-bin/listinfo/rrd-developers
>
>

--
Tobi Oetiker, OETIKER+PARTNER AG, Aarweg 15 CH-4600 Olten, Switzerland
http://it.oetiker.ch [hidden email] ++41 62 775 9902 / sb: -9900

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Re: rrdcached support for --template

S Shipway
The trunk version of rrdtool has support for rrdinfo via rrdcached; so theoretically, this could be used to retrieve the structure so that --template could be supported by rrdupdate via rrdcached.  However it wouldn't vbe a 5min job.  Also, it would necessitate several more actions by rrdtool/rrdcached which would probably negate any benefits of using rrdcached (other than being able to work over the network) so might not be worth the effort.

Steve

Steve Shipway
University of Auckland ITS
UNIX Systems Design Lead
[hidden email]
Ph: +64 9 373 7599 ext 86487


________________________________________
From: rrd-developers-bounces+steve=[hidden email] [rrd-developers-bounces+steve=[hidden email]] on behalf of Tobias Oetiker [[hidden email]]

Yesterday Eric Schoeller wrote:

> Is there a plan to enable rrdcached support for 'rrdtool update
> --template ...', and if so what is the approximate time frame? Apologies
> in advance if the feature has already been added and I've missed it.

I don't know of anyone working towards this at present ... the
problem with supporting --template is that it requires knowledge
about the structure of the rrd file which rrdcached does not have
by design ... there are ideas on how to change this (it would also
enable updatev) but the changes would be quite extensive ...

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Re: rrdcached support for --template

Eric Schoeller
Steve and Tobi,

Thanks for your replies. I was certainly excited to initially read about rrdcached, and I was disappointed to find out that my application (Cacti) utilizes a feature of rrdtool that is not supported (yet). I don't know enough about rrdtool/rrdcached to fully understand the negative performance implications of supporting '--template'. My goal was to implement rrdcached and observe any performance improvements of our application/hardware. One thought is that it might help evenly distribute I/O load.  As my application footprint grows I'd also be investigating the network socket option to offload work to additional hardware.

I don't have the time or the experience with C to implement this myself, and if I did you'd probably reject the patch anyway :) We also have a team of student employees who may be up to the task, but I would be more comfortable with having a software engineer already familiar with rrdtool working on such a feature. Our institution has been using rrdtool for quite some time now. We've never paid a dime for anything that utilizes rrdtool (well, other than hardware and FTE dollars) and I believe it would be possible to contribute to the effort now that we value it so highly. If someone could give me an idea of how many hours this would take along with an hourly rate (or just an overall cost) I can investigate this further.

Thanks!

Eric Schoeller
University of Colorado, Boulder
Information Technology Services


Steve Shipway wrote:
The trunk version of rrdtool has support for rrdinfo via rrdcached; so theoretically, this could be used to retrieve the structure so that --template could be supported by rrdupdate via rrdcached.  However it wouldn't vbe a 5min job.  Also, it would necessitate several more actions by rrdtool/rrdcached which would probably negate any benefits of using rrdcached (other than being able to work over the network) so might not be worth the effort.

Steve

Steve Shipway
University of Auckland ITS
UNIX Systems Design Lead
[hidden email]
Ph: +64 9 373 7599 ext 86487


________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Tobias Oetiker [[hidden email]]

Yesterday Eric Schoeller wrote:

  
Is there a plan to enable rrdcached support for 'rrdtool update
--template ...', and if so what is the approximate time frame? Apologies
in advance if the feature has already been added and I've missed it.
    

I don't know of anyone working towards this at present ... the
problem with supporting --template is that it requires knowledge
about the structure of the rrd file which rrdcached does not have
by design ... there are ideas on how to change this (it would also
enable updatev) but the changes would be quite extensive ...
  


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Re: rrdcached support for --template

oetiker
Administrator
Hi Eric,

I will look a bit more closely at to code to see what can be done
without going for the big rewrite ... I think template is doable
... the piece de resistance is updatev which requires quite
fundamental changes to the whole infrastructure ...

cheers
tobi

Yesterday Eric Schoeller wrote:

> Steve and Tobi,
>
> Thanks for your replies. I was certainly excited to initially read about rrdcached, and I was disappointed
> to find out that my application (Cacti) utilizes a feature of rrdtool that is not supported (yet). I don't
> know enough about rrdtool/rrdcached to fully understand the negative performance implications of supporting
> '--template'. My goal was to implement rrdcached and observe any performance improvements of our
> application/hardware. One thought is that it might help evenly distribute I/O load.  As my application
> footprint grows I'd also be investigating the network socket option to offload work to additional hardware.
>
> I don't have the time or the experience with C to implement this myself, and if I did you'd probably reject
> the patch anyway :) We also have a team of student employees who may be up to the task, but I would be more
> comfortable with having a software engineer already familiar with rrdtool working on such a feature. Our
> institution has been using rrdtool for quite some time now. We've never paid a dime for anything that
> utilizes rrdtool (well, other than hardware and FTE dollars) and I believe it would be possible to
> contribute to the effort now that we value it so highly. If someone could give me an idea of how many hours
> this would take along with an hourly rate (or just an overall cost) I can investigate this further.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric Schoeller
> University of Colorado, Boulder
> Information Technology Services
>
>
> Steve Shipway wrote:
>
> The trunk version of rrdtool has support for rrdinfo via rrdcached; so theoretically, this could be used to
>  retrieve the structure so that --template could be supported by rrdupdate via rrdcached.  However it would
> n't vbe a 5min job.  Also, it would necessitate several more actions by rrdtool/rrdcached which would proba
> bly negate any benefits of using rrdcached (other than being able to work over the network) so might not be
>  worth the effort.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve Shipway
> University of Auckland ITS
> UNIX Systems Design Lead
> [hidden email]
> Ph: +64 9 373 7599 ext 86487
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: rrd-developers-bounces+steve=[hidden email] [rrd-developers-bounces+steve=steveshi
> [hidden email]] on behalf of Tobias Oetiker [[hidden email]]
>
> Yesterday Eric Schoeller wrote:
>
>
>
> Is there a plan to enable rrdcached support for 'rrdtool update
> --template ...', and if so what is the approximate time frame? Apologies
> in advance if the feature has already been added and I've missed it.
>
>
> I don't know of anyone working towards this at present ... the
> problem with supporting --template is that it requires knowledge
> about the structure of the rrd file which rrdcached does not have
> by design ... there are ideas on how to change this (it would also
> enable updatev) but the changes would be quite extensive ...
>
>
>
>
>
--
Tobi Oetiker, OETIKER+PARTNER AG, Aarweg 15 CH-4600 Olten, Switzerland
http://it.oetiker.ch [hidden email] ++41 62 775 9902 / sb: -9900
_______________________________________________
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